Be Radical, Make Music:

An Interview with Feminist Scottish Musician Rosie Bans

In this juicy interview, we chat with Singer/Songwriter/Producer Rosie Bans, who writes, performs, ad collaborates with other artists and activists to create change for women and other marginalized groups, AND has an innovative support group and course for songwriters who want to give their creativity and motivation a boost.
We also discuss her free songwriting challenge, and how she helps songwriters spur themselves to get out of their own way to write more and more freely.

Links
Be Radical Make Music Facebook Group
Rosie on Instagram
Songwriting Website
Rosie’s Podcast
Songwriting Challenge

Support the show

Transcript

welcome to the what dreamers do podcast. i’m your host carla govan and appalachian musician flatfoot dancer, mama creative and dreamer from kentucky. i’m on a mission to inspire others to realize their dreams and live their most creative lives. grab your mason jar full of sweet tea or something a little stronger, and pull up a chair, because it’s time to get your dream off.

that’s what dreamers do.

all right, welcome dreamers to another episode of what dreamers do. and i’m so excited to be here today with scottish singer songwriter and producer rosie bands. she’s originally from glasgow, scotland, currently living in spain. and she has recently spun her talents into building a community and a support system, as well as some amazing resources for other songwriters who are struggling to find their voice and really take their music seriously. so welcome, rosie. i’m so excited to talk to you today. hello, thank you for having me. thank you so much. that was a really nice intro. i don’t think anyone’s ever written an intro for me before.

well, you know, i just, i have a lot of intros done about me. and i always try to, sometimes it’s not always what people want you to say. but i was thinking, you know, what, what would my listeners really want to know about her? that’s gonna be relevant to them. because we have a lot of really creative people that listen to this podcast, a lot of songwriters, as best i can tell, listen to this podcast. and so that was one reason that i wanted to, even though i’m getting ready at the time of this recording to hit out on tour, i wanted to fit this in and talk to you chat with you today about what you’ve got going on. because not only are you somebody who has made profession of your music, but you’re also somebody that loves to teach and share what you’ve learned with others. and i really love that because that’s that’s how i feel, too. yeah, yeah, absolutely. it has been like a real, there’s a real journey in my career. and there was a very pivotal moment, where i realized how much i wanted to be able to share back what i had learned and to support other people. so i’m really glad that we connected as well, because i feel that from you from what you put out into the world. and i think that energy usually gravitates towards each other, you know. so i’m glad we got the chance to do this podcast in the middle of your schedule. thank you for having me. so just to provide you guys a little background, i met rosie and an online group that is dedicated to people that are trying to learn how to make digital courses. and both of us shared the same story that we were full time touring musicians whose careers came to a screeching halt when the covid shutdowns happen. and we both decided to turn towards the course creation. and so i know that we’re going to speak with rosie today a little bit about the course that she’s created, but also just some other amazing resources and events that she’s got coming up for songwriters. but first, why don’t you just kind of tell us your cliff note version, you know, just a little bit more about yourself and how you came to be where you are now. well, so i’ve been a singer songwriter are for like the last 15 years, music has always been a part of my life. and i feel very lucky that i grew up in an environment, both in school and at home where music wasn’t necessarily encouraged. but it was it was allowed, i had a lot of space to to be musical as a young kid and a young person. so i took the road down to actually studying music professionally. and then in terms of how i got to where i am just know, i’ve always had music in my life. and i feel i always say i feel lucky because i know so many people who are super musical and really talented but weren’t encouraged or didn’t have space for it as young people. and ultimately, it music then actually be music wasn’t allowed to have that space in their life. and as adults, they will look back and see oh, i wish this and i wish that and i feel so lucky that it’s kind of nothing to do with me that my environment sort of allowed that to happen. so i studied music. and then since i left university in 2009, i’ve been a full time professional musician, kind of until the pandemic hit when that was a huge like for so many of us for so many creatives as well. a huge shift, not necessarily in creativity, but in the professionalism and the way that we earn a living from creativity in the way that we conduct ourselves as profession.

who knows. so when the pandemic hit in 2020 i, like so many people jumped online. and i started creating communities. and one of the first ones was called sunday songwriting, and i set it up with a field glaswegian artists called becky wallace, who’s amazing, go check it out. and it just, it was this beautiful lifeline for 17 weeks, we met every single week, we were writing songs, we were sharing songs. and what came out of that, for me was that even though we can’t be in person, being online and have an online community is does have a really important part to play in our lives. and it can be really impactful. and so when i felt the power of that, i just kind of ran with it. and now that’s essentially what i do. i just sort of run an online community with various other bits and bobs. but it, it still blows my mind how impactful it is. and no, we’re really lucky that being in spain, as we all know, the situation with the pandemic kind of calming down a little bit, that we can meet each other in person. but that’s kind of in a nutshell, the abbreviated version of how i got to be doing the online stuff. yeah, and i totally relate to what you’re saying. because i think prior to the pandemic, hitting i was sort of

i don’t want to say snobby about online communities, it was just more like it’s, it’s so second best to in person in person is the way to go. that’s what i want to do. but something kind of magical started happening in the online spaces. and i think part of it has to do with it being a numbers game. because sometimes when you do something locally, you know, there’s just not as many people with the passion that show up, you might have three or four people and but when when you’re suddenly able to reach this network of everybody around the world that really is gravitated to exactly what you’re doing.

i don’t know that’s probably a word that i can’t say it that way. but anyway, you know what i mean?

then you have this, this kind of synergy that starts to happen and you really find these true connections. i’ve been shocked. you know, i’ve really made some genuine friends and genuine connections online. and so i totally,

totally relate to what you’re saying but you wind up in spain and so to me that’s interesting. i’m and i’m trying to imagine i love your accent. you know, americans are we’re kind of obsessed many of us with scottish accents anyway, because we we think they’re so cool. but now i’m trying to imagine what your spanish sounds like with a little overlay. the glaswegian.

on your see

me hispaniola nest is musclemania has been

a blessing spaniard the si claro que se z or pero? elvish no cameroon i sent to espanol is mas latinoamericana. si si already got no colonists no consistency. the manual says. no, some sources say wacky, pharaoh. but i guess we better switch back to english because

my ethan van norberto mucho is on your list. espanol, poco poco cada dia veloci. well, that’s the best way to learn is been actually thrown in the deep end that way. oh, and i tell you is a deep end for sure. i didn’t, i did not speak one word of spanish. really. i was totally. i had no connection to the spanish culture. spain just wasn’t a thing in my life until i moved to spain. and i found myself in my mid 30s. living in a new country learning a brand new language and thinking none of this was on my five year goals

was going on. so i’m dependent it, for sure. it’s quite a curveball there. yes, it will tell us. well, i do want to hear more about the programs that you have. but also on this podcast, we really like to talk about how we can be more creative in our everyday lives. and one thing that i’m always fascinated with is other creative people. and do they have a creative routine or ritual? does it look something similar every day? you know, what does that process look like for you? do you get up every morning and light a candle and do yoga and songwriting exercises or what does it look like? i would love to be like those instagram people.

and i feel the same i’m i see that i’m just very nosy. i’d love to know how other people do it. but i do. i do have creative routine and an essence. i like to think about my life and phases. because i tried for many years to to sort of make myself and in this very linear, very kind of patriarchal idea of what it means to have a routine or to be a successful person. and i realized

that, actually these phases, that’s that’s a lot more how i think about my life. so for me my creative routine, it always starts with checking in with myself. for years, i would show up at the piano or try and write songs. and it was like i was pushing something out of me. and sometimes they don’t realize like, where i’m starting from, or have i felt that the or if i hadn’t if i even wanted to write something. so now, my creativity really starts with me checking in with myself. and i see things like i do have a daily journal practice, for sure. for my mental health, i must get those words out my brain and onto your page. and i also have a daily tarot reading practice. and i know, i’m a no way. and i don’t want any your listeners to be like, turn it off. i’m not a super spiritual kind of deep person like that. but i do find it incredibly reflective to, to kind of get these cards out and just look at them and see, well, what do they feel about those things sitting on the page, you know, sitting on the table, and i find through the jonalyn, and the tattle that i always end up with some kind of idea, some kind of concept, some kind of creative space that i just wasn’t in before i done those things. so for me, these became like linchpins, of my creative routine actually didn’t have before, i would just sit at the piano, and i’d be like, write a song go, i just hope that it happened. so now it’s a lot smoother and easier and slower. but it feels it feels more human to me. and then i have also like i’m seeing and phases, i’m in a phase of a lot of output, non creative output, or non non musical output, i should see, i think everything we’re doing online and what you do as well, carla is super creative, right of it kind of sits in a different world, that with with music, i’m, i’m not in a musical output phase at the moment. but 2023 i mean, i have a ridiculous amount of music plans, just sit in the meeting be activated and 2023. so i know that from from now till then, and i’m also someone who’s really organized kind of to my own detriment a lot of the time because then i’m like, don’t change the plan. i can’t change the plan. so so i know between now and then there’s there’s a lot of creative attunement, there’s a lot of creative space to go into to reconnect with that and and really get that solid routine down. but ultimately, yes, i do, i do have a key routine. and i really try at least once a week, to have something written to connect with my instrument to connect with my voice. and again, i do know, at this part of my life in this age, see it more like a journal more like the title more like an experience and less like i am doing an activity in that activity, songwriting. it’s just i’m expressing myself, i’m loving, i’m being i’m understanding. and that, for me was a huge shift and a huge change that made it possible for me to show up for other people’s songwriting. because if i was still where i used to be, i wouldn’t be able to do that. you know, it just felt like too much pressure. so so yeah, i would say, in terms of anyone listening as well, who maybe doesn’t have a creative routine. and once one, i think a lot of it is starts with you. it’s all right. it’s all inside you. it’s all there. you are a creative, organic being on the planet. it’s just a bit when rise to the surface and kind of let that creativity lead you. and that’s what i practice as much as i can when i’m not sending emails to 10 million people. exactly. well, amen to everything you said. and it resonates so much with previous episodes of this podcast, which i’m sure you probably haven’t had a chance to listen to you. but we talked about how you know patriarchal ideas about what we should be doing with our creativity causes us to try to force it, which is itself anathema to the creative process of being receptive and being intuitive and letting that flow through you and i love i love working with taro, i have used it. i’ve used taro completely to just write songs before i’m stuck. you can because it’s just all the archetypes of humankind. you just lay out six cards and there’s a storyline plot everything boom. even if you don’t have a single wu bone in your body. exactly use taro for songwriting, but also just this idea that

there are seasons in our lives. and actually one of my more popular recent blog posts was about this it was something like to everything there’s a season including your creativity. and

i think with me when i was younger, i had such a strict idea about what my creativity should lie look like that every day. if it didn’t go through that exact handle that i thought it should go through, you know, i would beat myself up or

i would think i’m all washed up, you know, i’m never going to make it ever have what it takes i don’t have the drive, not realizing that you know, everything, including the land, the earth, the crops, you know, birds, animals they have, they have cycles, and they’re not always producing the exact same thing every time. a lot of times when we don’t see

any output in the moment, it’s because there’s something brewing underground. exactly. and even our concept like a nature of the seasons, it blows my mind, every time that i feel like i’m from a country that has very pronounced seasons and scotland, it’s like, from one day to the next, you’ll go from, you know, winter, to spring, except summer, we don’t get a summer, that’s not a season that we have at the end of summer. but we’re here i’m seeing things like so it’s what’s the end of me, and all the leaves are falling off the trees already. and i’m kind of i’m walking about the park and wales leaves on the ground and, and remembering that all around our human logical construct of what a season is, is is rubbish, right? it’s just an idea. it’s just, it’s just a concept. nature, nature flows, how nature flows. and we always try to box it up and package it up, and you know, make it make it feel more linear and more structured. and i love that nature just sends a bag like know me, i’m blooming when i want to bloom, yeah, him, i love it. and one of my favorite things to do in the winter, when the trees are bare, is to go really close to the branches of a tree and see that tiny little bright green buds that is, like in the deep dark, like the most deepest scottish winter, you can imagine, you can bet that those brand new little leaves are right there, they’re right there in front of your face, but we just walked past single, everything’s dead. and no, you know, there’s no green on the trees, it’s there, it’s just, it’s there, you just need to get close, you know, and see it. and i feel like with creativity, it’s the same, we can feel like, oh, there’s nothing there, i don’t have anything, i can’t re okay, it’s there, we just need to set and get close to it and get quiet with it. and appreciate that we are putting ourselves in these little structured boxes, you know, and, and exactly like you’re seeing and by doing so, it kind of strips us from the ability to be creative, which is an innate human ability, you know?

absolutely.

and i think that that’s one of the most rewarding things about the communities that i’ve connected with. and it sounds like it’s been similar for you during the pandemic is the process of me figuring out something, these things for myself, and then reaching out to my communities and helping them hopefully, perhaps get more creatively free. it’s so rewarding. and i realized that, you know, i think part of the reason that we’re here is just to help each help set each other free, set ourselves free, and help set each other free in these in these creative ways. so that’s a beautiful thing. and on a related, but somewhat different note, i did want to just ask you quickly about your relationship between your,

your art, and the causes that you believe in, because i know certainly in music in general, especially in folk music, and appalachia is probably true in scotland as well that there is a historical connection between using between the arts and social justice and causes that we believe in. so how does that play out in your life?

well, i call myself a feminist and training. because i feel like i feel like i’m also human and training most of the time. but yeah, that

particularly during the pandemic, through black lives matter, through multiple, i mean, some horrific things that were happening around the world and constantly are happening. it’s just it became news, you know, and realizing how much work we’ve all got to do. and i thought,

since well, basically since 2017, i, i joined theatre company in 2017. i worked with them on their team, and they’re a feminist theory company based in edinburgh, they’re called stellar coins. they’re excellent. and through just working in that team, i feel like i got this rapid education on what actual feminism as protection or feminism is and what it means to be a feminist and, you know, the whole just the whole concept of it. and we’re all my triggers were my unconscious bias was and we got a lot of training and we got a lot of professional training on it.

and i always thought i was a feminist, but before that point, i realized i hadn’t had not actually put in any official work, you know, i haven’t actually done anything, you know. and, and so being part of that team was huge, huge eye opener and i grew massively. i’m also a vegan as well and i kind of think of

unionism for me as a, as an extension of feminism, whereby i want to have the least violent impact on the planet, i want to live a life that’s compassionate. and that’s, that’s love driven. and it’s such i mean, it sounds, it sounds like a meditation thing is just the hardest thing for us to do. and we’re so stuck in our egos and and all these constructs. and so having feminism in my life has been such a teacher. and like i say, call myself a feminist and training on purpose, because asms and ests are difficult, difficult terms for a lot of people. and that can be a bit triggering as well. and i think by appreciating that i absolutely constantly have to keep being in training and keep working on that. so for me, my activism, i suppose, comes through the work and the work that i’m doing in communities with women. and in particular, i run an organization called phase f, a s ii, and we are a community of women music producers, are it mean to demystify not just music production, the act of it, but the concept of the just the whole idea around what music production is what it could be. and to really help people see that music production is for them to decide what it is for them, there is no, there’s no sort of rule book that was written by a man that we must adhere to it as wherever, wherever you want it to be. and so for me that that group was really amazing to be part of into facility. and it taught me a lot, but just seeing people finally getting a chance to just go, oh, so maybe i can do this. well, it’s like, it’s so sad, at the same time has been beautifully awaiting. but it’s so sad to think that there’s these amazing human beings, so much talent, and so much skill. like they’re brilliant producers, they’re amazing at what they do, they’ve just never had a door open for them. and they’re being discriminated against because of either how they look or how they present or how they identify, you know, you name it. and so for me, that’s music is a beautiful vehicle, it’d be able to do all that within. because at the end of the day, it’s the music production is important that it’s about that person’s sense of being actualized as a human, it’s about that person’s sense of efficacy, that i can do something if i want to do it, i just haven’t been given the space or the opportunity yet. and so providing that is a wonderful thing. so i think musics a wonderful vehicle, you do it within and the other, the other kind of, i don’t know if i’m calling it activism, i don’t think it is activism. but through my course, a radical songwriting academy, one of the factors identified through doing an online course, was a real lack of accessibility and that space that online space. and so i had an amazing a student in my course, who also was my accessibility consultant the whole way through. and so we met up at different periods throughout the course and, and she helped advise me and guide me. and i very quickly realized, no one’s talking about, you know, chronic disability, no one’s talking about visual impairment, no one’s talk, no one’s talking about all of these factors that are very much part of humanity, that almost get like, oh, we need to talk about it, because we don’t, because there’s assess way able bodied, straight person, i’m scared, i’m gonna see something wrong. and so through, do my own course, and facilitate my own course. and having this amazing person part of it, i realized, oh, wait, if i, if i actually just shed light on as many different, i suppose different types of people and the way people live life, then that person can comment to the light and come forward and say, i’m going to take up this space. and that’s what happened over and over again. and i got people on the course talking about, no one’s ever spoken about autism, no one’s ever spoken about chronic disability, and how it makes it difficult for me to log on and do your course. but now you’ve spoken about, i feel like it’s literally easier for me to log on and do your course. and so the difference is literally just let’s talk about it. let’s acknowledge it. so suppose there’s a form of activism in there. but ultimately, that is kind of how it should be right? it’s kind of like, it’s how it should be more but unfortunately, i think, you know, you’re an outlier if you’re attempting to not only make your course more accessible, you know, to different learning styles and whatnot, which is super important, but also

just creating spaces to normalize things that aren’t as you say, sis white, able bodied, hetero people, you know, different life experiences and exactly, yeah, it’s

it comes up over and over again. so that i think it is activism. yes. i’m going to say that local activism. yeah, i mean, we had an amazing discussion. and these, this has all been, apart from the accessibility consultant and me making that choice to see, because and one of the courses that i’ve been in, there was no talk at all about accessibility like at all, not even once, you know, i was constantly aware of it. but so apart from that, one of the other discussions we had very organically was cultural appropriation. and we’re doing music, right, we’re a music. so there’s, there’s a huge potential for us to view any species that perhaps we don’t fully understand. and that’s okay, that’s absolutely fine. and so we had as a group, in a discussion about that, and i realized how much i need to go away and do more research so that i can present it to people in a way that they don’t feel triggered, but also we can discuss it and come to a space where we are being respectful and appreciative of exactly where different cultures are, where different cultures have been sort of capitalized by the west, essentially. so

colonized and music, i mean, it’s a colonization still, and music, you know. so yeah, that’s stuff like that. it’s just whoa, that just comes up. and i feel like for all of us, i suppose activism also, essentially, i mean, i know the word activism, but you can always be switched on, you can always be not switched on, you can always be open to these difficult conversations. and i think by just being like that, and making that choice, and in of itself, is sort of a form of activism, to to allow ourselves to let that happen. so that was amazing. that was an amazing experience for me as well.

it’s not just showing up carrying signs, but it’s the way you live your life. exactly, exactly. yeah. yeah.

and super important work about, you know, empowering women in not just in the field of music, because i feel like women have been, we’ve been able to at least be singers for a long time. and then at some point, a few women started playing instruments on stage. and then i feel like, you know, producing and engineering and that sort of thing is almost i don’t know if it’s the final frontier, but it’s kind of where we are right now. and as a woman who does a little bit of production.

yeah, it’s, it’s not exactly a thing yet. and then you encounter resistance. and i can think of a few male engineers i’ve worked with as a producer, who are they’re turning the knobs, but not maybe necessarily honoring the fact that i’m the producer. and no, i think we just need to put this on here. i’m like, well, this person hired me to produce it. i don’t know. it’s it’s a real.

you encounter some resistance there. i think so that’s important work. yes. i’ve been in the exact same situation. that’s infuriating. yes, absolutely. and because it’s tech is well, and women and tech women in the tech world. yeah, there’s you don’t see. it’s not that there aren’t women there. there’s enough if not a surplus for the workforce, and the tech in the tech realm, but the amount of women who are actually getting paid for it. the numbers are obscene in the uk. anyway, the numbers are, are disgustingly low. and there’s been research and to you know, there’s there’s whole swathes of research. this isn’t just, there’s an amazing woman called vic bane, who released that report, i think it was called counting the music industry, where she literally counted the amount of women and these record labels, producing things and on credits, and the numbers were really, really shocking. so the data is there now. and, and it’s still an uphill struggle. music festivals is another one israel in the us so. so yeah, i think in terms of, of legacy, we’re delighted to be singers. i think there’s another side to all of it too. and i’m currently working with an organization in the uk called power scotland, which is protection of women and the arts. and we are putting together fees and power putting together a report to to understand the landscape for mental health, crisis prevention, for freelancers. so in the uk, if you work in a in a company, you’ve got hr, you’ve got a resource there if there’s if there’s harassment in the workplace, if there’s you know, something’s happening with your mental health. but as a freelancer, who is a musician, your workplace is a music venue or your workplace is this you know, it’s online. and so what happens if there’s, if there’s something that triggers your mental health if you don’t get paid, if there’s harassment online or someone crashes into your zoom gig and exposes something, you know, there’s, there’s so many other potentials there. so we’re putting together a report, just to look at

like one of the things that is highlighted is there’s so much there’s, there’s many resources for after the fact, you can go for counseling, you can go for therapy, and a lot of music bodies in the uk can help provide that support. but there’s not much for the prevention of it either. and i think when it comes to women, and the music landscape and the music workplace, we are so much more susceptible to, to that kind of behavior being treated in that way now than men in the music industry to mean that the rates of mental health and suicide are so, so bad. and it’s an incredibly dangerous industry. when you look at the data, you know, it’s really dangerous, but i think women are, are more, there’s more potential for the behavior towards women to impact that. whereas i think for a lot of men in the music industry, there’s lifestyle, there’s lack of support, you know, there’s different factors. so it’s a really complex situation, but i think, yeah, empowering. i mean, i used to hate that word. and now i’m like, i don’t care. i love it, and parenting, and parenting and being able to just like, let someone in and say, you’re totally valued. you’re here, we want your music your musics important. and see women going out and doing that. i think that’s one we at least have as the chain start to shift the landscape, you know?

well, it’s, it’s really that’s awesome that you’re working on that report, that impact report, and you have your hand in so many pies your finger in so many pies, many irons in the fire. oh, nice.

but it’s it’s so awesome to talk to you. and i honestly could just talk and talk and talk. but i know that we’re trying to keep this brief, you’ve got another meeting. and my listeners i’m sure have things to do. but i want to make sure that everybody knows about this awesome songwriting challenge that you have coming up. and maybe if you can tell us about that. and any other resource you have going on that you want to let folks know about. right? so it has a challenge for an always have the word. so it’s called 20 songs one day challenge. and you our task should you accept it is to write 20 songs in one day, we will meet online at 9am. uk time on zoom. and i will deliver a workshop because it’s 9am. for some people, for some people, if you’re in the us, and you’re going to log on in the middle of the night, then, i mean, amazing. amazing. so we’ll do a workshop, and then you go away, and just write songs. and the idea behind the challenge is to get over yourself. and to get over the ego. it’s not about the quality of the writing, it’s about the quantity of the writing. and to just smash out the tunes, man, just smash them out. and the more that you do get into that space, the freer you become an actually, the more that that’s when a lot of the really interesting ideas get to come out of you, you know, because you’re just going at it. so 20 songs in a day, no one is expected to write 20 songs. but everyone is expected to attempt to write 20 songs. and i want to make a huge distinction between those two things, because of capitalism and society. and all this stuff is folk about the 20 songs part is really scary. and people go, oh, i can relate to it as songs. but that’s kind of not the point. the point is to try and write 20 songs. and you know, some people do some people come back with 20 songs. and some people like me, and they’ll be like a seven to 10 songs and that challenge kind of writer. so whatever it is for you. it is that’s all and it’s about participation with a bass bass. part of this challenge for me, is at the end of the day, we all meet again on zoom. and i put everyone in a breakout rooms of three people. so you’re probably going to be with two people you’ve never met before. and you get to share your music with each other and talk about the experience. and there’s two whole hours to do that. and hopefully by the end of those two hours, you’ve made two new friends two new songs and friends from somewhere randomly in the world. and you know a little bit about their musical world through listen to some like a selection of the songs. so that’s the challenge it’s on the fourth of june 9 pm uk time. i’m so bad with time zones. so i’ll go on time and date.com and i will find out all the different time zones. but nene am uk as well. is that on 3am eastern time.

3am

but i assume that you’ll have recordings and hopefully some workarounds and ways for people to get involved that are not

exactly so everything will be in the radical songwriting group on facebook, which you can find via my website be rad

they will make music.com or via my instagram, which is at the radical make music. and say that’s, that’s a totally free facebook group. it’s open all year round. and i’m in there every week. so the whole thing is happening inside that group too. and it will be recorded and it’ll be up there for you to jump in. and even if people just want to come and do the workshop, so be two workshops throughout the day, then that’s perfect. so come join us we can do this. yes, motivation. yeah. well, i love this challenge. because as a songwriter, myself, and also somebody who’s taught songwriting, i know for a fact that one of the biggest hurdles that people have is that internal critic that keeps you sitting there, with your pencil hovering above the paper and putting this kind of time constraint on it, it can get you out of that it can be something to push you out of it. so to me, that would seem like an incredibly valuable aspect of this. chengli. yeah, i mean, there’s nothing the antithesis right. as is a sharpened, perfect sharpened pencil, everything’s perfect. real like, you know, get that pencil blunt, you know, get messy, so exactly. that inner critic, can can go on holiday for a day soon be under critical at the beach or something, you know, yeah, that’s the first of the challenge. that’s the inner critic. on little all expenses paid get away. yeah, well, sabbatical.

well, so now. so for those of you listening in the timeframe of this, it begins on june 4 2022, is where we’re at. but if you’re listening to this, after, you know, the challenge is over, but you still want to work with rosie, i know she has a couple of free songwriting resources available year round on her website. and then also,

i don’t know how many times a year you run your is it radical songwriting academy is what it’s called. yep, that’s what it’s called. so i’ve got a five day free challenge coming up in july. and then radical songwriting academy will be opening its doors in july as well. and if that doesn’t work for people, the next time will probably be christmas ish time, near the end of the year, if all goes well, but for now, july is the is the month, it’s the big one for all the songwriting needs that you may have.

planets will align the great conjunction of songwriting and exam, i think the main thing to remember is that when you need some help with your songwriting, rosie is here on the internet with her free facebook group. and it really is i joined the community. it’s an amazing community, very supportive, and lots of activity in there. i did have one question. so i know some people might be experienced songwriters. but some people might be beginners, are you open to all levels? yes, yeah. so the course is designed for anyone to come in. and there’s, there’s music theory, there’s, that’s usually what people are a bit scared of, actually, there’s a lot of music theory worse. however, music theory, i don’t teach anything with a pen on a piece of paper, everything’s by ear, and singing. so we use the voice a lot. and we use our ears a lot. and lots of visualization on the piano keyboard. so it’s open to all levels. i’ve had people that just came through the course who had literally never written a song in their life, and came out of 10 weeks of songwriting, and no one like i am a songwriter. and i’m just like, you blew my mind.

other people who’ve been writing songs for 2530 years, people in their 60s and 70s. so it is a beautiful space for you to bring what it is that you want to it. and it’s been designed in such a way that all the resources are there for you to develop as well. and i kind of again, like one is stress, this nonlinear approach that i take to everything. and the courses the same, it can be really hard to get over western education, you go up a level you up the level we did the courses, so not like that, it’s there as a resource for you to, to dip in and out of as you grow with your songwriting. and those two things take time. so the course is lifetime access for that too. and the facebook group and the podcast, it’s on there. i mean, if you want to listen to me talk every day, you probably could turn on why you would. and i’m sorry if that is what you want, because i feel like we need to recheck your priorities but

you could still see it’s open to everybody. and you know, if anyone

still isn’t sure even just about their story in general, i love chatting to people send me an email, i usually send a voice note back i think like a big part of this for me as well is for me if you connect it to you that it’s not just me here talking, you know. so get in touch whatever it is, we’ll have a chat.

that’s awesome. and that’s one of the amazing things about this. what to me seems like

like an online learning revolution that’s happened since the pandemic is, all of a sudden, you have access to these amazing world class people in every single field you can imagine, and they will talk to you and they will answer your emails, and they will comment on your facebook posts. so if you want a chance to hang out with a really fabulous songwriter who’s been around the block and knows a thing or two about music and production, and songwriting, and all the music things, and the activism things and the feminism things, then i encourage you guys to check out rosie’s work, and invest in yourself. and sometimes to me, the thing about taking a course is

you’re giving yourself something, it’s like a gift that you’re giving to yourself of personal development and learning. and i don’t want to say it doesn’t matter what it is. but as long as it’s something you’re passionate about, it’s more about that you’re giving yourself the chance to just connect with your your creativity and your soul. but also, i’ve done some different free courses, and i’ve done some amazing ones, but sometimes also just investing in a course and you’ve got skin in the game, you’re more likely to show up. so i don’t know, we don’t have to get into like what you charge and all that stuff. but

i think would be a great investment for people for songwriters that want to,

you know, make an investment in their songwriting. so absolutely, absolutely agree. and we do like psychologically as well, we have that, that value, monetary value representing real life value, you know, that is that is total when something is free, for example, sometimes it it feels like it doesn’t have much value. and when you pay for something, if it’s for your development and your songs, you’re totally right, that skin in the game, the motivation behind it, and it feels good. it feels like i could have spent this money on rubbish or on, you know, stuff that i probably don’t really, really want to spend on bettering my musicianship feeling like a song. wow. you know, and it feels good tonight. i like seeing that that turn and people are like, finally, i just went, i’m gonna do it. and they’ve done it. and they’re really happy for doing it like, yay, i’m happy to do it. it’s brilliant. so i agree. i agree. indeed. well, i’m gonna put all that information in the show notes about where to find you. but i’m so grateful that you took this time to chat with me and my listeners. and i hope to chat again when we’re both maybe not at quite such a busy crossroads. but it’s been such a pleasure. thank you so much. thank you. thank you so much. and good luck with all your gigs in the uk and all your travel around europe. and i hope you have a wonderful time for sure. and i would love to have you on the be radical music podcast sometime just say the word. let’s wait till you’re well rested after your trip.

fantastic. thank you. alright, joe.

joe.

thank you so much for joining me this week. if you want to make sure you never miss an episode. please hit subscribe wherever you’re listening now. or visit my website to get on my email list at www dot karlik over.com. when you sign up, you’ll instantly receive my milton mama digital care package, a bundle of music and videos to help you wring every drop of yeehaw out of life. you’ll even find a dance lesson as well as my granny’s cornbread recipe with new goodies being added all the time. i’ll see you next thursday on the wet dreamers do podcast